Ep309: Mold of All Colors

Fungi are incredible life forms that we barely understand- neither animal nor plant. Sometimes they want to live and grow alongside us, which can have massive health impacts. Explore the science of mycotoxins, dry rot, 'toxic' black mold, and how to inspect your home and tune your living space to be accepting of molds, but keep them where they belong.

Featured researchers and experts:
James Scott- Mycologist at http://www.sporometrics.com/
Rob Dunn- Indoor Ecology Researcher at https://robdunnlab.com/
Coby Schal- Entomologist at North Carolina StateUniversity, Raleigh
Birgitte Anderson- Mycologist at University of Copenhagen
Jason Earle- Mold Expert at https://GotMold.com
Karen Dannemiller- Environmental Engineer at Ohio State University

Also featuring lots of footage courtesy of Creative Commons and the US DOD.  The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement.

DIVE DEEPER WITH THESE RESOURCES:

TRANSCRIPT:

01;00;02;01 "- Mold and its impact on health is very individual."

01;00;05;06 "- I have some very ill smelling building materials."

01;00;10;04 "- We're actually very closely related to fungi."

01;00;12;07 "There are very large domains of life on Earth"

01;00;15;18 "that we learn very little about and molds are one of those."

01;00;19;09 "- [Narrator] ""Home Diagnosis"" is made possible"

01;00;21;18 "by support from Broan-NuTone, better air, better life,"

01;00;26;16 "by the GOT MOLD? Test Kit, real science, real simple,"

01;00;30;21 "by AirCycler, Retrotec, ROCKWOOL, and RenewAire,"

01;00;35;29 "by generous support from these underwriters"

01;00;38;15 and by viewers like you.

01;00;41;09 (soft music)

01;00;43;12 "- How scared should I be about mold?"

01;00;46;14 "- This is not scary, it's fascinating,"

01;00;49;05 "but because it's real, you do need to understand"

01;00;51;19 why it shows up indoors.

01;00;53;16 "- Like most visible parts of the science of homes,"

01;00;56;16 "mold is only a symptom of a problem."

01;00;59;15 It's not the problem itself.

01;01;00;29 "- So let's learn to make friends with our problems,"

01;01;03;19 make friends with the mold,

01;01;05;06 "and listen to what they're actually telling us to do next."

01;01;08;28 (soft music)

01;01;11;15 "- [Voiceover] It's the shields we build"

01;01;19;01 and the risks we take.

01;01;25;01 "It's the disasters that will test us"

01;01;31;12 and what will grow from them.

01;01;36;21 It's real life

01;01;40;17 "and the physics, chemistry and microbiology"

01;01;43;19 of the science of homes.

01;01;45;29 (soft music)

01;01;51;15 So mold.

01;01;56;04 "Mold is, simultaneously, a fascinating thing"

01;02;01;23 and a terrifying thing.

01;02;03;29 "As a scientist, I find molds to be one"

01;02;07;13 "of the most alluring groups of organisms on the planet."

01;02;13;15 "As a member of the general public,"

01;02;16;05 "the situation is very different, however,"

01;02;18;08 "and this is a consequence of how we're educated."

01;02;21;18 When we're in school,

01;02;22;25 "we learn about the various domains of life."

01;02;25;08 "We learned about plants, we learned about animals."

01;02;28;00 "Mostly, the animals have fur and they have big eyes,"

01;02;31;03 "but there are very large domains of life on Earth"

01;02;34;23 that we learn very little about.

01;02;37;07 And molds are one of those.

01;02;39;00 "- If you do a big evolutionary tree of all of life,"

01;02;41;22 "our branch and the branch of fungi are so close together"

01;02;44;22 "that you don't see them as separate."

01;02;47;01 "We're actually very closely related to fungi."

01;02;49;13 "And so one of the reasons that poses a problem"

01;02;51;20 "is that things that kill fungi, very often,"

01;02;53;27 are dangerous to us.

01;02;55;22 So antibiotics kill bacteria

01;02;57;15 "and most antibiotics have relatively little"

01;03;00;03 direct effect on our cells.

01;03;01;24 "They can affect us by accidentally killing species we need,"

01;03;05;07 "but they're not a threat to our cells."

01;03;07;02 "Fungicides are, very often, a threat to us,"

01;03;11;06 and that poses two problems.

01;03;13;00 "One is that we're using fungicides all over the place"

01;03;15;23 and often, for stupid reasons.

01;03;17;26 "But the other issue is if we then have a problem"

01;03;21;07 "with a specific fungus, we don't have very many tools"

01;03;24;24 to fight fungi.

01;03;27;02 "And so some species of fungi that were not pathogens,"

01;03;31;15 "really ever, including some Candida species,"

01;03;34;23 "have started to become pathogens."

01;03;38;02 "And if we're not careful, we will inadvertently create"

01;03;43;24 "more fungal pathogens through the ways"

01;03;45;06 "in which we manage the environment around us."

01;03;48;03 And if that does happen

01;03;49;26 "and some people are seeing signs that it is happening,"

01;03;53;17 "we then have these pathogens where it's very different from,"

01;03;57;07 "you know, think about the story of COVID,"

01;03;58;22 "which is so horrible and it so transformed the world,"

01;04;02;21 "but amazingly, we had the tools and the wherewithal"

01;04;06;00 "to make vaccines in a very short time horizon."

01;04;08;28 "It doesn't feel short, but it's been so quick"

01;04;12;21 that that's happened.

01;04;14;04 "We don't have that ability with fungi"

01;04;17;01 "and so if a new fungus sweeps the world"

01;04;18;24 "that causes problems, we don't even know which book to go"

01;04;22;13 "to start to think about how to deal with the fungi."

01;04;25;11 "And so fungi, you know, they're amazing."

01;04;28;28 They do amazing things.

01;04;30;13 "We depend on fungi very directly in many parts of our lives."

01;04;33;14 "Our beer, our bread, our kombucha,"

01;04;36;13 "they're all over in a beneficial way,"

01;04;38;24 "but they're so close to us that they're really tricky."

01;04;42;20 "And, and so I think that's something we need to be aware of"

01;04;45;19 "as we think about how we manage houses."

01;04;49;01 And when you use fungicides,

01;04;50;21 "remember that you're killing a relative."

01;04;54;07 "- So when I did my PhD work in Costa Rica,"

01;04;57;07 I entered hollow trees.

01;04;59;09 "They're huge trees, there are bats in the hollow tree."

01;05;03;22 "And I was sifting through that bat guano"

01;05;06;04 or looking at the cockroaches,

01;05;07;12 "really interested in the cockroaches,"

01;05;09;18 "I had no idea that the bat guano was loaded with fungi."

01;05;15;01 "And I got a very, very severe case of histoplasmosis."

01;05;18;08 "So back then, there was a experimental fungicide"

01;05;21;05 called amphotericin B,

01;05;23;09 "it's called the 'shake and bake' drug."

01;05;25;25 "I was in the hospital for a couple months"

01;05;28;18 "and every night, I got an IV infusion"

01;05;31;25 and they had to pad my bed

01;05;34;19 "because I would bounce against the metal"

01;05;36;25 from all the shaking.

01;05;38;24 That's the effect that you get

01;05;40;01 "from using a fungicide on a human."

01;05;46;07 "- Mold can grow on every surface you can think of."

01;05;52;22 "And it's just a question of is it dirty enough"

01;05;56;12 and moist enough?

01;05;58;29 "Mycotoxins, that's something we humans"

01;06;02;19 "call fungal metabolites or their metabolic products"

01;06;08;23 "that are toxic to us if we eat them,"

01;06;11;29 if we get them on the skin

01;06;14;21 "and they can penetrate the skin or we inhale them"

01;06;18;13 "and therefore, get them into our mucus membranes."

01;06;22;28 (soft music)

01;06;26;06 my relationship with Mold

01;06;27;19 "goes back to childhood, actually."

01;06;29;24 When I was about four years old,

01;06;32;16 "I suddenly lost a lot of weight in a three week period"

01;06;35;09 and had difficulty breathing.

01;06;36;16 "It was actually one of my first memories."

01;06;38;28 "And my parents took me to the pediatrician who said, ""No,"

01;06;41;01 """you need to take him to the hospital."""

01;06;43;00 "So we went to Children's Hospital Philadelphia"

01;06;45;16 "where the initial diagnosis was cystic fibrosis"

01;06;48;11 "based upon the symptoms I was presenting with,"

01;06;50;06 "as well as the family history, my family history."

01;06;54;23 "Fortunately, six weeks later, they got a second opinion"

01;06;57;15 "and they confirmed that I did not have cystic fibrosis,"

01;06;59;25 "but rather, I had asthma compounded by pneumonia."

01;07;01;25 "And when they tested me for allergies, I tested positive"

01;07;04;01 "for every single thing they tested me for,"

01;07;06;04 "grass, wheat, corn, eggs, dogs, cats,"

01;07;10;05 cotton, soybeans.

01;07;11;24 "And I grew up on a small, not working farm,"

01;07;13;05 surrounded by all those things.

01;07;14;17 "So life was a bit challenging in that respect"

01;07;17;06 until I was about 12 years old,

01;07;18;26 at which point my folks split up

01;07;20;12 "and we moved outta that house and all my symptoms went away."

01;07;22;23 "Never thought about it again until about 12 years later"

01;07;26;06 "where I was reading a story about someone"

01;07;27;26 "who at 40 years old, after mold exposure,"

01;07;30;14 "in the hotel where they were an employee,"

01;07;32;05 "suddenly developed adult onset asthma"

01;07;34;03 "and allergies to all of these things"

01;07;35;23 "that he had never had a problem with before."

01;07;37;15 "And it was like a déjà vu moment for me."

01;07;39;14 "It brought me right back to that stage"

01;07;42;01 "where I began asking questions about how the house"

01;07;44;24 "that I grew up in may have impacted my health."

01;07;47;17 "- We call them mycotoxins because they are toxic to us"

01;07;51;00 "and the fungus that produce them sort of have no idea"

01;07;55;10 "that we are going to eat them or something."

01;07;57;12 "So the purpose for the fungus is probably"

01;08;01;01 something totally different.

01;08;02;20 "It's just a coincidence that they're toxic to us."

01;08;06;00 "So maybe the purpose of this molecule"

01;08;10;28 is to perhaps call it an insect,

01;08;13;24 "so that the spores can be transferred to other places"

01;08;19;28 "or for some fungi, they need a mate."

01;08;23;15 "They don't have any arms and legs or mouth or anything."

01;08;27;29 "So they have to communicate via chemistry."

01;08;32;24 "So they use their full array of chemicals"

01;08;37;01 "to either say, ""Go away,"" or, ""Come, come,"""

01;08;43;11 "and then sort of accidentally, they are toxic to us."

01;08;48;16 "Nature's never wasteful with anything it's produced"

01;08;52;02 because the fungus needs them.

01;08;54;27 "We just don't know what it is that the fungus needs it for."

01;09;00;04 "- In terms of actionable tips for people who are watching"

01;09;04;05 "or listening to this, when doing a mold assessment,"

01;09;06;20 "what we're really looking for is moisture."

01;09;09;28 "Yes, we're looking for mold, of course,"

01;09;11;22 "but what we're really looking for is any sign of moisture."

01;09;15;01 "As I was going through the house, I was looking,"

01;09;17;11 "with a very high-power flashlight,"

01;09;18;26 for areas that appeared dusty.

01;09;21;13 "And the reason I was looking for those dusty areas"

01;09;24;09 "is because, A, most mold growth initially colonizes"

01;09;29;03 on household dust, okay?

01;09;31;25 "So mold isn't just in there eating everything,"

01;09;35;05 "it's actually eating the stuff that's easy to eat."

01;09;37;22 "And dust is tiny little broken pieces of building materials"

01;09;42;00 "and skin cells, and it's already sort of pre-chewed,"

01;09;45;07 if you will.

01;09;46;14 "Humidity will form water droplets on surfaces"

01;09;49;27 "and then begin to activate the spores that are in that dust."

01;09;54;05 "And then, so you've got the moisture, you've got the food,"

01;09;57;29 "you've got everything you need there for that colonization."

01;10;00;05 "And so looking for those dusty areas"

01;10;02;26 "is a way to find mold because when you start to see,"

01;10;06;16 "using a flashlight at the right angle,"

01;10;08;22 "you start to see where there's a big difference"

01;10;10;22 between dust and colonization.

01;10;13;22 "And for a homeowner or someone who's looking around"

01;10;16;26 "in their home, learning to see the difference between dust"

01;10;20;09 "and colonization is a really important"

01;10;23;04 "step on detecting this stuff early"

01;10;25;20 "because that's what a professional's gonna do."

01;10;27;21 "A professional's gonna come in there"

01;10;29;06 "and know the difference between that white yellowish dust"

01;10;32;07 that's abundant in most homes,

01;10;35;04 "to some degree, versus colonization."

01;10;38;20 "It's a subtle difference, but, you know,"

01;10;39;23 you start to see the shapes,

01;10;41;06 "you start to see that it's not as homogenous"

01;10;43;15 "or it's not as evenly distributed as you might see"

01;10;47;06 with typical settled dust.

01;10;51;10 And in this particular home,

01;10;52;15 you could see it in other areas.

01;10;54;00 "They're sort of telltale, for example, inside drawers,"

01;10;57;06 "along the top of the cabinet doors,"

01;11;02;07 "you'll also see it underneath drawers."

01;11;04;27 "So the bottom, if you were to go underneath,"

01;11;08;00 "you see this typically also in in basements"

01;11;11;00 "where you'll see the backside of furniture"

01;11;12;24 "will often be moldy because, of course,"

01;11;16;00 it's a little cooler back there.

01;11;17;13 "And that's also where it's gotten dusty"

01;11;19;18 and no one's cleaned.

01;11;21;01 "And so that's, you know, we always say"

01;11;23;13 "that the healthy home mantra is 'clean and dry.'"

01;11;26;02 "It's not just dry, it's also clean."

01;11;29;13 "So repeat after me, ""Clean and dry, clean and dry,"

01;11;31;24 "clean and dry."

01;11;33;13 "- Fungi live out of dust, concrete and inorganic materials."

01;11;38;27 "There's very little nutrition in them,"

01;11;40;27 "but the older they are, the more dusty they are."

01;11;44;15 "If they get wet, they will get moldy,"

01;11;47;19 just like any other material.

01;11;50;21 Everything is a question

01;11;52;02 "of keeping the building materials dry."

01;11;55;03 "And if you can't keep them dry, (beep) happened."

01;11;58;28 I'm not allowed to...

01;12;00;14 Accidents happened.

01;12;04;03 "- The most obvious kind of mold on a surface is really vivid"

01;12;09;21 and prominent.

01;12;11;02 "Those are the unusual examples of how mold looks."

01;12;14;23 "Mold, I think, mostly exists on a spatially,"

01;12;18;23 much more compressed scale.

01;12;21;22 "So I think the habitats of most molds"

01;12;24;04 "that are growing indoors are much smaller"

01;12;27;09 and probably much more numerous.

01;12;29;14 "They may be a crumb that falls on the floor,"

01;12;31;24 "they may be a couple of skin scales, they may be the cadaver"

01;12;35;29 of a dust mite that's now died

01;12;37;27 "and it's being overtaken by the molds"

01;12;40;11 that fed it while it was alive.

01;12;43;08 There are things like that.

01;12;44;14 "They're much, much smaller habitats."

01;12;46;17 "The built environment has many, many of those habitats."

01;12;51;20 "So the thing that regulates the ability of molds"

01;12;54;21 to grow anywhere that they do,

01;12;57;12 "mostly, it's not related to the presence of their spores"

01;13;01;24 "because their spores are frequently floating"

01;13;04;05 around in the air.

01;13;05;03 They get tracked in on footwear.

01;13;08;04 "Source is fairly easily available."

01;13;11;28 "Similarly, stuff to eat is also pretty available."

01;13;16;12 "Like, there is a mold that will eat anything on Earth,"

01;13;19;24 "even the most difficult substances."

01;13;22;21 "You could probably find one or more fungi,"

01;13;26;03 "some bacteria possibly too, that would be able to eat it."

01;13;30;28 "Temperature, that's also not very limiting"

01;13;34;01 because molds are able to grow

01;13;35;22 "over a very, very wide range of temperature."

01;13;38;20 "Whereas when we think about bacteria,"

01;13;40;21 mostly, in the laboratory,

01;13;42;02 "we put our Petri dishes in an incubator"

01;13;44;20 "that's a body temperature to grow bacteria,"

01;13;47;06 molds don't care about that.

01;13;48;21 "There are molds that will grow at very high temperature."

01;13;51;02 "There are molds that will grow at very low temperature."

01;13;53;01 "There's one that grows in the freezer at -20 degrees"

01;13;56;18 "because there's still enough unfrozen water"

01;13;58;23 "at that temperature that the mold can continue to grow."

01;14;01;19 So molds are able to to grow

01;14;03;21 "over a very, very wide range of temperature."

01;14;06;02 "The only thing that limits the ability of molds to grow"

01;14;09;06 "where they do is water and it's access to water."

01;14;14;28 "Because how molds work, they don't eat like you and I."

01;14;19;12 You and I put food in in one end

01;14;22;09 "and then our bodies extract the stuff from the food."

01;14;25;06 "That's not how molds work at all."

01;14;27;03 "Molds spit their enzymes out into the environment"

01;14;31;22 "and those enzymes mix with water in the environment."

01;14;35;17 "The enzymes then break down the material"

01;14;37;12 that the fungus wants to eat

01;14;39;06 "and then the fungus absorbs those breakdown products."

01;14;43;18 "The stomach of the fungus is on its outside"

01;14;47;01 "and the only way for that to work is the tip"

01;14;50;11 "of that fungal filament needs to have access to liquid water"

01;14;55;02 or its enzymes don't work.

01;14;57;00 "It doesn't have to be a lot of liquid water,"

01;14;59;06 just has to be a little bit.

01;15;00;26 "We really wanna see the indoor relative humidity"

01;15;03;10 "no higher than about 50%, 60% at most."

01;15;07;27 "But as soon as you start to get around 60%"

01;15;11;25 "or higher, then you start to set up conditions"

01;15;14;25 "where there are molds that will be able to grow."

01;15;17;22 "And also, it's really important to understand"

01;15;19;24 "that those kinds of static measurements"

01;15;21;20 "don't necessarily tell you very much."

01;15;23;24 You know, if I have a meter

01;15;25;18 "and I measure the relative humidity"

01;15;27;00 in the middle of the air,

01;15;28;16 "that doesn't tell me the relative humidity of the space."

01;15;31;18 "Because if I measure the relative humidity close"

01;15;33;26 "to the window sill or on an exterior wall,"

01;15;36;22 "it could actually be quite different."

01;15;38;04 "It could be substantially different."

01;15;41;03 "So that kind of spatial variability"

01;15;43;27 "is something that molds really take advantage of."

01;15;47;02 "So those point measurements in the built environment,"

01;15;49;05 "they can be useful in terms of identifying"

01;15;52;08 large overall problems,

01;15;54;05 "but they don't necessarily exclude the possibility"

01;15;57;08 "that there might be problems on a smaller scale"

01;15;59;14 "in very specific micro environments."

01;16;04;09 - Walking right up to the house,

01;16;05;16 "you could tell that there were problems"

01;16;07;25 "or you could tell that there are problems."

01;16;10;13 "Initially you can see where the gutters"

01;16;12;28 "are not performing well, where water's actually running"

01;16;15;18 against the facade of the house.

01;16;17;24 It's always a red flag for us.

01;16;20;01 "You see, just the roof design, in general,"

01;16;22;03 "is not actually efficiently shedding water"

01;16;25;16 "and that's a building's number one job,"

01;16;26;27 is to shed water and wind.

01;16;29;18 "And if it's not doing that well, you can be sure"

01;16;31;09 "that there are other design flaws."

01;16;33;03 "At least, that's been my experience."

01;16;35;13 And then as soon as you walk in,

01;16;36;23 "of course, we're wearing a respirator."

01;16;38;06 So I wasn't able to pick up any

01;16;39;12 "of the typical sort of telltale scent"

01;16;41;21 associated with mold growth.

01;16;44;05 "Right off the bat, you can see that around the high hats"

01;16;47;18 "and any of the ceiling penetrations, for example,"

01;16;51;02 "speakers, supply vents to the HVAC,"

01;16;54;13 there was evidence of moisture

01;16;56;22 "and mold around many of them, bathroom exhaust vents"

01;17;01;13 "that were just completely covered"

01;17;05;05 with growth on and around them.

01;17;08;25 "But the pervasiveness of it, it was really remarkable."

01;17;13;01 "And I've been in many, many homes"

01;17;14;21 "and I've rarely seen one that was supposed to be inhabitable"

01;17;18;14 that's in this condition.

01;17;21;02 "- But it's not a problem with the drywall"

01;17;25;05 "and the fungal spores in the paper,"

01;17;27;29 "as long as it's not getting wet, can we keep it dry,"

01;17;34;08 "as a drywall should be kept dry, then not a problem."

01;17;38;04 "Then the fungal spores would just sit there, like,"

01;17;43;01 "well, seeds in a bag that you buy in the winter"

01;17;47;25 "and you want to plant them out in the summer,"

01;17;49;18 they will do nothing.

01;17;50;26 "Here in Denmark, when we renovate buildings"

01;17;53;16 "that have been fungal ridden, the drywall burnt very badly."

01;17;59;24 "So the mold stuff is actually being crushed up"

01;18;03;19 "and used as soil enhancer and fertilizer and do whatever."

01;18;10;00 "And I only found out that last week"

01;18;14;06 "and had a big discussion with the environmental ministry"

01;18;20;11 "and they were not aware that they did that."

01;18;22;24 "There's still a lot of things that we don't know"

01;18;25;17 "with what we do with the nature and with the recycling"

01;18;30;05 "and we need to work out what the fungi do"

01;18;34;09 "when they are being relocated into new products."

01;18;38;16 "But as long as we don't know, it is a bit worrying, I think."

01;18;45;08 (bouncy upbeat music)

01;18;48;03 "I have some very ill smelling building materials,"

01;18;51;29 but that was that.

01;18;53;10 "This here is, can you see that there is something?"

01;19;00;09 Gross.

01;19;01;15 - Is that wood or is that-

01;19;03;05 This here is eelgrass

01;19;07;07 "and it's an insulation batch of eelgrass,"

01;19;10;20 "which has been standing next to a gypsum board."

01;19;15;12 "And I will have to shower afterwards because this here"

01;19;19;18 or that is Stachybotrys,

01;19;22;13 "plus a couple of new fungi that I don't know what is."

01;19;27;12 "- The basic core structural building material"

01;19;30;03 "that we still use in a lot of buildings is plant material."

01;19;34;07 "Plants build their stems mainly out of two chemicals."

01;19;38;27 "They build them out of cellulose and lignin."

01;19;41;21 Cellulose is paper, essentially.

01;19;45;00 It's a white material by nature

01;19;47;15 and it's a polymer of glucose.

01;19;50;14 "So glucose is the most important source"

01;19;55;02 of carbon energy on the planet.

01;19;58;00 "Almost every organism that's living can use glucose."

01;20;03;06 "Lignin, which is the other component of wood, is brown."

01;20;07;06 And lignin is a polyphenol.

01;20;08;28 "Lignin, on its own, is fairly toxic to microorganisms"

01;20;13;18 "because when they leak their enzymes out"

01;20;15;18 "into the environment to break material down,"

01;20;18;18 "lignin latches onto those and it stops."

01;20;21;21 While the lignin is there,

01;20;23;28 "the number of things that can grow on it"

01;20;25;16 is much, much smaller.

01;20;28;21 "One of the things that can do that is this group of fungi"

01;20;31;08 that we call dry rot fungi.

01;20;34;10 "They can just attack the wood, eat out all of the cellulose"

01;20;38;09 and leave the lignin in place.

01;20;40;07 "The cellulose is the stuff that's responsible"

01;20;42;04 for the strength of wood.

01;20;44;01 "The lignin doesn't contribute strength,"

01;20;45;18 it only contributes the color.

01;20;47;05 "So what you're left with is this brown, crumbly, dusty wood,"

01;20;53;10 "but dry rot fungi can go a step further."

01;20;56;08 "They need water in order for their spores to germinate"

01;20;58;18 "and they need water to get started."

01;21;00;19 "But once their growth is started,"

01;21;03;03 "they can move the water forward in their filaments"

01;21;06;07 "and they can then grow into material wood"

01;21;09;15 that's objectively dry.

01;21;11;03 "The hazard with dry rot fungi isn't so much allergy"

01;21;16;00 "or asthma, although those are hazards,"

01;21;22;14 "it's a fall through the floor to your death kind of hazard."

01;21;24;29 "Like, these are seriously damaging organisms"

01;21;29;06 to have in buildings.

01;21;31;07 "And when you find them, it's really important to make sure"

01;21;34;18 "that you know that the fungus that you're dealing with"

01;21;36;23 "is dry rot because you want to find the margin"

01;21;39;00 "of how far it's grown and then you want to measure out"

01;21;42;01 maybe an extra 6 to 10-feet

01;21;44;09 "and amputate there and then put in new wood elements."

01;21;49;00 "And if you don't, then it will just keep going."

01;21;52;04 They're really, really damaging.

01;21;56;26 "- People hear a phrase like, ""Toxic black mold"""

01;22;00;11 "and they think, ""Oh, no, if I have toxic black mold,"""

01;22;03;02 "which is called Stachybotrys chartarum,"

01;22;06;04 """then I need to clean it up immediately."""

01;22;09;12 "In fact, there are lots of molds that are harmful"

01;22;12;12 "to human health that are all different colors."

01;22;15;10 "And really, it fundamentally seems to be"

01;22;17;08 "if the mold is growing, that causes the health effects."

01;22;20;19 "So if you have mold growth in your home,"

01;22;23;16 "that's when you start to see those potentially harmful"

01;22;26;18 "impacts to the people who might be living"

01;22;28;13 in that environment.

01;22;32;12 "- So the species that causes toxic black mold,"

01;22;34;25 "deadly black mold, is a really mysterious species"

01;22;37;08 "that we know very little about in nature."

01;22;39;20 "And one of the things we didn't understand"

01;22;41;20 "about this species, relative to its wild nature in houses,"

01;22;44;19 "is how it gets in the houses in the first place."

01;22;47;00 "And how does it seem to know when a house has been flooded."

01;22;51;10 "And then Birgitte Anderson, who's here in Denmark,"

01;22;54;07 "she started to wonder if maybe what was happening"

01;22;56;15 "was that it was actually lurking in the drywall,"

01;23;00;12 "that when you bought new drywall, that it was already there."

01;23;03;27 "- I sat there day after day, in the microscope,"

01;23;09;23 to see if something happened.

01;23;11;20 "And after a while, something did happen."

01;23;14;29 "Yeah, actually Stachybotrys was not the dominant one."

01;23;18;21 "It was Aspergillus hiratsukae, that was the dominant one,"

01;23;23;19 "but Stachybotrys was growing much faster,"

01;23;26;19 "so it could outgrow any of the other fungi."

01;23;29;28 "It was, like, this here was its prime habitat."

01;23;33;17 "It really felt at home on the drywall."

01;23;36;16 "The fungal spores in the cardboard"

01;23;40;26 "that is sitting somewhere outside a shop"

01;23;43;20 "waiting to be recycled and getting rained upon,"

01;23;47;23 they go totally black

01;23;50;06 "and then they're going to the paper mill"

01;23;53;11 "and there's enough spores that survive the whole process"

01;23;59;19 "of being turned from cardboard into drywall"

01;24;02;15 "that the spores are sitting there"

01;24;04;22 being embedded in the paper.

01;24;07;25 So the more we sort of recycle,

01;24;10;29 "not seeing the recycle thing as a resource,"

01;24;14;24 "but just garbage, then we'll keep the circle"

01;24;18;21 of mold growth turning.

01;24;20;29 (soft music)

01;24;23;20 "- Mold and its impact on health is very individual."

01;24;28;13 "You can have five people living in a molding environment"

01;24;31;06 "and you'll have five different symptom profiles."

01;24;34;01 "That's just the way this is, it's very personal."

01;24;37;07 "It's a lot, like, allergies in the sense that,"

01;24;41;09 you know, peanuts, for example,

01;24;43;15 "are something that some people love"

01;24;46;00 "and can have lots and lots of them."

01;24;47;29 And there are other people that,

01;24;49;27 "they're exposed to even the dust from some,"

01;24;52;09 it's potentially lethal.

01;24;53;24 "Mold is not dissimilar in the way it impacts people."

01;24;57;01 "Not to say that anybody wants to have a lot"

01;24;58;18 of it in their house or should,

01;25;00;04 "but on the extreme side, where there's small amounts,"

01;25;04;12 "you know, it can have a very outsized impact"

01;25;06;26 on certain people.

01;25;08;10 "What mold tends to do, at least it did this with me,"

01;25;11;04 "it brings out whatever you're already dealing with"

01;25;14;15 and it brings it to the surface.

01;25;16;00 "So in my particular case, absent that chronic exposure,"

01;25;18;15 "I'm no longer allergic to anything,"

01;25;19;18 anything when they test me.

01;25;21;17 "In fact, many of the doctors refer patients"

01;25;23;02 "to me over the years, think it's interesting to test me"

01;25;25;13 "for allergies because they know my history."

01;25;27;21 "And so absent that chronic exposure, I'm abundantly healthy."

01;25;31;03 "But if I were back in a molding environment,"

01;25;32;29 "I would probably be experiencing a lot of those"

01;25;35;19 "old sort of legacy symptoms that I did as a kid."

01;25;39;04 "But, you know, the reality is, is that even in a house"

01;25;41;14 "where you might have five people living"

01;25;42;27 in a moldy environment

01;25;44;15 "and there's five different symptom profiles,"

01;25;46;10 "one person may be complaining most vociferously,"

01;25;49;07 "but when you get rid of the mold,"

01;25;50;17 "suddenly, the other four people start saying"

01;25;53;06 that they're sleeping better,

01;25;54;17 "they're not having so much emotional dysregulation."

01;25;57;07 "Suddenly, you know, their skin is clearer."

01;26;01;15 "All of a sudden, they're recognizing"

01;26;03;29 "that their baseline symptoms were actually unhealthy"

01;26;07;14 "and that absent that chronic exposure, once again,"

01;26;10;09 "they began to reset and normalize."

01;26;13;25 "- Nice to end on a message of hope."

01;26;16;08 "Don't wait until things are pretty colored and fuzzy."

01;26;20;24 "Be proactive with testing, inspection,"

01;26;23;12 and maintenance at home.

01;26;24;29 "- Join us next time to delve into the causes"

01;26;27;10 "and effects of the world of pollution outside sneaking in."

01;26;31;16 and share all of This science

01;26;33;06 "and lots more by visiting ""Home Diagnosis TV,"" till then."

01;27;17;12 "- [Narrator] ""Home Diagnosis"" is made possible"

01;27;19;22 "by support from Broan-NuTone, better air, better life,"

01;27;24;21 "by the GOT MOLD? Test Kit, real science, real simple,"

01;27;28;26 "by AirCycler, Retrotec, ROCKWOOL, and RenewAire,"

01;27;33;29 "by generous support from these underwriters"

01;27;36;17 and by viewers like you.